He’s battled cancer. He has endured great personal loss. And he has stared down insurrection from the floor of Congress. So when Rep. Jamie Raskin tells you that America will survive this, it means something.

“Fascism will not be the end of democracy,” he told me. “Democracy will be the end of fascism — right here in America.”

This was a truly inspiring conversation. It was also a lot of fun. Raskin hit the ball back, which is all an interviewer can ask for. He didn’t flinch from any question, and he was quick with a quip to lighten the mood. An added bonus from this former professor of constitutional law: Jamie Raskin holds in his memory what seems like volumes of incisive and inspiring passages from the Founders our country, and he shares a few here word-by-word to show how relevant their ideals—and their fears—are to our troubled times. It was an impressive performance.

Our talk took place as federal courts tried to hold back another constitutional breach: the attempted deployment of military forces into the city of Chicago. Raskin didn’t mince words. The president’s lawyers, he said, were “using every pinhole in the statutes” to expand executive power, twisting a vague line in the Insurrection Act into a license for domestic occupation. “It’s Marbury v. Madison all over again,” he said. “We don’t leave it to one guy to decide whether to cast aside the whole Constitution.”

But in the legal trench warfare over Trump’s breaking of constitutional boundaries and norms, Raskin finds hope in the data. “The rule of law is holding,” he told me. Opponents of Trump have won roughly three-quarters of their cases in district and appellate courts. “The problem,” he said, “is one court — the Supreme Court — which has been gerrymandered, stacked, packed, and sliced and diced.”

So what’s the fix?

Not “court-packing,” he said — but unpacking. “It’s already been packed and stacked. Let’s correct that,” Raskin proposed, calling for 13 justices, one for each federal circuit, serving staggered 18-year terms. “That’s how we begin to restore legitimacy.”

And he sees a bigger danger behind it all — a culture war masquerading as jurisprudence. “We’re getting completely ideological agendas being promoted through the Supreme Court,” he said. “They’re acting like a corrupt city council.”

Yet for all of our talk about the deep difficulties of this moment, what clearly and vividly animates Jamie Raskin is faith — in people, not in institutions. He credits the same human decency he sees in his Maryland district, in the ordinary neighborliness that still bridges politics.

That belief — that Americans can still recognize one another across our Great Divide — is one I share, as you know by now if you’ve been following me. And it is a belief that keeps Raskin fighting for. “Democracies aren’t saved by pieces of paper or traditions,” he told me. “They’re saved by people. Regular folks who decide not to let it happen on their watch.”

Watch the full conversation above. And join me in the comments:Do you think Jamie Raskin is right — that the center of this country still holds?

And if you value these conversations with the newsmakers who are shaping the events of our time, subscribe to the YouTube channel and share this with someone who still believes democracy can win.

— Terry